Wong Kar-wai Page 7

  At the beginning I wanted to get in touch with Louis Cha because when he created those characters, he must have thought of events that occurred in the characters’ earlier lives but he did not lay them out in the book. But I could not get in touch with him, so I began to think about what might have happened in their earlier lives. This allowed me to have more creative space, so I started to develop another story. The ending of my story is the beginning of The Legend.

  Y&L: Do you use the period film genre merely because the two characters are interesting?

  WKW: First, the period film genre was popular at that time.

  Y&L: Which was two years ago?

  WKW: Yes. Second, I had not made a period film. I have always thought this genre is fun to make; you can be as imaginative as possible.

  Y&L: Others who make period films have their motivations: some want to criticize the present by talking about the past, others want to make fight scenes. What are your motivations?

  WKW: I am not that ambitious; I only wanted to try. Period films are actually very difficult to make; therefore, I adopted an easy-way-out attitude by using a contemporary perspective. Also, I don’t emphasize class; period film is very formalistic, different classes have different rituals and lives. It is ridiculous to spend too much time on researching into their way of living because no matter what it is fake. What does it matter if we research into how they poured their tea and ate their meals? At the end, it is our guess.

  When we were making Ashes of Time, we discovered we have missed one point. At the beginning, my idea was to have Leslie Chueng’s character be the avenger. Later I read books about vengeance in China which state there were many rules of vengeance in ancient times. Therefore, I thought if one has to take revenge for his family, he has to spend ten years, twenty years to prepare for it. It is neglected in the books that in those days there were several areas of no man’s land. After spending so much time and experiencing so much during the wait, the avenger does not remember how to talk to others, or he begins to talk to himself. The initial motivation becomes unclear. Period film does not emphasize the time spent on the journey.

  Y&L: Why didn’t you make a period road movie?

  WKW: Originally, I wanted to trace the source of the Yellow River, to follow the river from Qinghai to Hukou Waterfall, but the difficulties were grave and we could not afford it. In addition, there is no way to ask actors like Leslie Cheung and Brigitte Lin to make a road movie.

  We were touched by [John Ford’s] The Searchers; the main character spends so many years searching for a person, he truly realizes time is changing. During the search, he makes a living by selling things. This is a great film; it made me think about life and its horizon.

  Y&L: Then it became the story of Ashes of Time?

  WKW: The crew had to stay on location, so we stay.

  Y&L: Is Ashes of Time mainly about love?

  WKW: It is mainly about love. I have put my favorite stories in this film. This is a Half a Lifetime Romance3 between Eastern Heretic, Western Venom, and a woman.

  Y&L: Does Ashes of Time use the period film genre to talk about contemporary love relationships?

  WKW: Some love is eternal. At the end I finally realized what Ashes of Time is about—also, how Ashes of Time relates to my previous films. In fact, all my films are about being rejected by others or the fear of being rejected. In Days of Being Wild, everyone is rejected. They are afraid of being rejected so they reject others first. It is also about the reactions after being rejected, such as how Maggie Cheung and Carina Lau overcome the problem. Chungking Express is the same, but I may have changed. The ending of the film is open for interpretation. The relationship between Faye Wong and Tony Leung is ambiguous, but they can accept each other. But Ashes of Time is the most severe [in terms of rejection] because it is the summation of the first three films. All the characters are afraid of being rejected, afraid of how they will spend their days after being rejected. For example, Brigitte Lin becomes a schizophrenic. She becomes two persons; she uses the alter ego to comfort herself and to give herself excuses. Tony Leung Chiu-wai uses death to reject all things, to give up himself. He cannot accept that he has to turn around, but he cannot not turn around because he loves his wife. At the same time he did not give himself a chance to forgive himself, so he uses a destructive way to solve the problem. Leslie Cheung is the same; he is hiding out in the desert because after he was rejected he could not be the one who takes the initiative. Tony Leung Kar-fai forgets about everything after drinking the wine, which is also a way to avoid rejection. At the end I realized the summation of all my films is to talk about “being rejected,” “avoidance,” and such. Some said my films are about time and space, which is wrong. Maybe the films only relate to me. The characters are all very introverted. They do not express themselves. They are afraid of getting hurt.

  Y&L: Leslie Cheung in Days of Being Wild is a self-absorbed person, but he can influence others around him. He can even manipulate others’ feelings. In Ashes of Time, how do you see Cheung’s character?

  WKW: At the beginning I asked Leslie Cheung to play Eastern Heretic but realized there wouldn’t be any surprise because everyone expects him to be cool, like his image in Days of Being Wild. So I did not want him to play Eastern Heretic, but to be Western Venom instead. Western Venom is full of hatred because he has a lot of issues. He is also an orphan, so he knows how to protect himself. He knows the best way to avoid being rejected is to reject others first. That is his attitude in life. He will close himself up forever, not let others stand close. At the end he understands that this does not work. He understands that this attitude has made him miss many chances. This understanding mainly comes from the death of his enemies. Also, this understanding comes from Hong Qi (played by Jacky Cheung). This person does not feel bad about being rejected; he will do whatever he feels is right.

  Y&L: In Days of Being Wild, Leslie Cheung is absorbed in his own world, and Andy Lau in When Tears Go By is too stubborn, like a dead end road. We feel Chungking Express is much more optimistic. There are mismatches between people and time, but at least at the end of Chungking Express, Leung and Wong have a possibility to develop …

  WKW: I feel Ashes of Time will be broader. At the postproduction stage, I would compare it with Chungking Express, but the artistic weight of Ashes of time is heavier than Chungking Express because the depth and the width of Ashes of Time are heavier and more complex than Chungking Express.

  Y&L: Your films have a lot of details in lighting and mood creation. How about Ashes of Time?

  WKW: The main characters in Ashes of Time are actually the wide space; the biggest difficulty is we don’t use candles. In ancient times, light came from candles, but we used lighting. Christopher Doyle avoided using candles because he could have more freedom with lighting. We did some postproduction on the master tape, which became what appears on the screen. The effect came out great, thanks to colorist Calmen Lui at Universe Laboratory.

  Y&L: There are many characters in Ashes of Time. Are they connected through many stories?

  WKW: Leslie Cheung connects all the stories. He is the central force. Everyone has to go through him, and from him there are stories.

  Y&L: You have something new for the audience in every film. How about in Ashes of Time?

  WKW: The new thing this time is I used many traditional elements. The film is not difficult to understand; it is very explicit. The most special thing in Ashes of Time is the heavy use of interior monologue. I listened to the radio when I first came into contact with wuxia fictions—the feeling is very intimate. This time I use many interior monologues to see if they can be used in films. Therefore the story is very explicit.

  Y&L: Now there is a trend of using interior monologue in Hong Kong films. Will it become an abuse?

  WKW: Interior monologue is one perspective to record events. It has to be used appropriately or else the story has to depend on interior monologue. Do I have to be like [Robert] Bresson who restr
ains himself? Bresson taught us not to spend unnecessary effort to make films but to use the most concerted effort. But if everyone is like him in this world, it will be very dry. Using concerted effort is like choosing vitamin pills that have the most concentrated dose, so there are many choices. Another example is the films of Satyajit Ray—one feels very moved. They belong to another kind of classic beauty. No director should adhere to the same school.

  Y&L: In your films, the dialogues could concisely construct the personalities and emotions of the characters.

  WKW: I personally feel they are not very good; the best dialogues are Godard’s. Our dialogues are literary-like, but Godard’s are poetic.

  Y&L: A question that I have always wanted to ask: Why did the version of Chungking Express screened at the premiere have to be reedited for the regular screening? I actually like the premiere version much more. It is more mysterious when compared to the final cut. It is more illogical which suits the inexplainable actions of the characters.

  WKW: Actually, the length of Chungking Express at the premiere exceeded the requirements of the theater, so we had to cut out fifteen minutes. A lot of people said the scenes with Brigitte Lin are boring, so we mainly cut her scenes out. The scenes with Faye Wong have not changed much.

  Y&L: However in the final cut, the relationship between Tony Leung Chiu-wai and Faye Wong gradually develops, unlike the premiere version in which the relationship is more ambivalent.

  WKW: In fact that was my original thought; the premiere cut resulted from the separate postproduction that I and William Chang did. I edited the scenes with Brigitte Lin, and he was responsible for Faye Wong’s parts. We did not know the progress of each other. At the end, I felt many places could be refined; however, William Chang did not know the exact length, so he did not dare cut too much. He tried to keep some scenes. This working method may be absurd, but this absurdity is not intentional.

  Y&L: We know you improvised Chungking Express. Some directors use this method to keep real time. What is your intention?

  WKW: Like having a vacation, I was more relaxed. I needed to get reacquainted with my own instinct and intuition. In our daily lives, we have to consider every step very carefully. that’s why things have to be arranged very meticulously and seriously. Gradually, we lose our intuition toward things; we lose our instinct. Making Chungking Express is like pushing you into the traffic. You can only use your instinct to reenergize yourself [note: WKW used the word energy].

  Y&L: Why did you spend so much time on editing?

  WKW: I usually find someone whom I trust to do the editing. Then I can use a more objective angle to analyze the result. In fact, Days of Being Wild had a short editing time. Patrick Tam only spent three weeks on it. For Ashes of Time, the editing took a lot of time because we did not figure out the story structure. There are many fragmented stories in Ashes of Time, and we wanted to know how they could become a coherent idea. This was an insolvable problem until recently. The editing time for Chungking Express was also short.

  Y&L: But you are not pleased with the editing?

  WKW: The biggest problem is my films are not developed from stories. If my films were developed from stories, then there would be more causal events. They have to be one scene after another. But my films are developed from characters, and that allows for more possibilities.

  Y&L: Probably because of all these possibilities and the nonmainstream narrative structure, the characters make time a key question when others talk about your films.

  WKW: Now when critics talk about films, they only use the films to talk about their taste and perspective. Their criticism has nothing to do with me. I have begun to feel I am an object that allows critics to talk about their perspective from this object.

  Y&L: Is it because the public opinion places a great emphasis on you?

  WKW: I don’t think so. I and my films perhaps have become a topic. This is not a bad thing, but I feel the current trend is problematic. Sometimes I really want to say, “Hey, don’t blame everything on me! It is only you who like overinterpreting my films!”

  Y&L: But your films are indeed the focus of the cultural circle.

  WKW: Maybe my films have many cues, which let critics develop their own theories.

  Y&L: Your films don’t have a conventional narrative story structure. The structure is loose, and the characters have a distance from one another. Therefore, some have said your films are about deconstructionism.

  WKW: My films and deconstructionism have no relation. Perhaps one can find cues in them, but I have never started from there. I am not David Lynch.

  Y&L: Some courses offered at the University of Hong Kong like to discuss your films—most of them are about postmodernism, Hong Kong culture, and nostalgia.

  WKW: Young people should not listen to others’ lectures; that will make them sound old. Young people should be more direct; watching more films is better than listening to others’ lectures. When one puts theories in films, they stop enjoying films, and watching films becomes a formula. Actually, I was once at that stage. In the beginning, when you watch films, you read many film reviews. It feels like playing a game looking for cues and categorizing them. In fact I asked myself, “So what?” Some say this form should be this; the structure should be that. In the end, “So what?” I only want to ask, “What do you look for?”

  Y&L: Do you resist theories?

  WKW: I feel one will inevitably be at that stage, but one day you will jump out from there, will not be addicted to theories; otherwise, one would sound too old. If a young kid comes to me and tells me a bunch of theories, I will be bored and irritated. This problem is the most obvious in Taiwan; some teenagers sound like theorists. Why don’t they experience more and create more?

  Y&L: Some say Chungking Express gives viewers the same impression as Haruki Murakami’s novels.

  WKW: Maybe because of the similarities of using numbers and time. Of course, Murakami’s work has influenced me. But I would rather say that I am influenced by Albert Camus than by Murakami. Why do people mention Murakami? Probably because they just use my films to talk about Murakami.

  Y&L: Is it because you and Murakami both talk about fate in relationship?

  WKW: The only similarity between Murakami and me is that we are affectionate men.

  Y&L: Some say Brigitte Lin’s character in Chungking Express does not have to be played by her because she wears a wig and dark glasses and just walks around anyway.

  WKW: Sometimes I think: if this blonde woman was not played by Brigitte Lin, but by any actress, would the audience have the same feeling toward the character?

  Y&L: I think the stars have already built up their images. Viewers have expectations for them. When they see the stars in films, they see an already-established image.

  WKW: Just like some ask why Andy Lau the cop in Days of Being Wild does not fight or shoot. It is because if Andy Lau walks around he will have an impact on the audience. Viewers see an actor as a particular image. When he does not have that image in my films, viewers are surprised.

  Y&L: Some say the Chungking Express scene in which Brigitte Lin and Faye Wong bump into each other is very sudden.

  WKW: Viewers have not allowed for that space!

  Y&L: Some feel there could have been some cues.

  WKW: Many feel that the scene would be more realistic if there were some cues. In addition, the convention of Hong Kong films requires a cause and then an effect. Is it possible that the characters could have a cup of tea between the two events? No. However, the drinking-tea event is the only reality.

  Y&L: That’s why viewers cannot stand Kieslowski’s films.

  WKW: I disagree. I think many people can accept Kieslowski’s films.

  Y&L: I feel a bit because he is famous.

  WKW: That’s for sure.

  Y&L: When The Double Life of Veronique was in the theater, half of the reviews were positive, half were negative. But in Three Colors: Blue, White, Red, all reviews were positive. Som
e scenes, such as the old woman picking up garbage, were not fully understood by viewers. They just said, “Very deep!”

  WKW: That’s right, all because of Kieslowski. But I don’t think he is in the first tier.

  Y&L: Which directors in recent years do you think belong to the first tier?

  WKW: … no one. I feel all directors in recent years just follow those before them but won’t go beyond them. Carax won’t be better than Godard, but clearly he follows Godard’s path.

  Y&L: But their styles are very different.

  WKW: That’s exactly it. But many people have already praised Carax for being great. I think Gus Van Sant who made My Own Private Idaho is interesting. But is he first-tier? This does not seem possible. The only films that are must-see are those of Martin Scorsese.

  Y&L: Even the quality of his films is declining.

  WKW: Like when you watch The Age of Innocence, it is easy to find errors. You won’t say, “Wow, I learned something today!” But his quality has stabilized; he won’t bore you.

  Y&L: Has the approach of ’97 affected your work?4

  WKW: We can’t tell the effect of ’97 yet, but ’97 has affected many people’s way of life. It has caused societal changes. At present, many people feel like they should speed up, and they are not looking ahead. They will stop whatever they are doing by ’97. To me, I have not yet found many obvious changes, but there may be fast changes around me. Therefore, I always feel you can’t immediately see something. Like the June Fourth Massacre, everyone was enthusiastic about doing something when it happened, but I feel we should not conclude anything at that moment. Instead, we should conclude it in ten year’s time.

  Y&L: But mainland China has increased censorship on mainland Chinese films. Will you be afraid that one day censorship will be imposed on Hong Kong films?

  WKW: There is censorship in Hong Kong films!

  Y&L: We feel Hong Kong self-censors itself!

  WKW: The censorship in Hong Kong is not state censorship, but the audiences first censor you. The production companies first censor you.